Firbush Retreats Firbush retreats are organized and led by Robert T. Walker. Firbush retreats are designed to make the best theology accessible to as many people as possible and especially those not trained in theology and often not familiar with routine technical terms. They combine times of worship and prayer with reflection on a theme related to Torrance theology. For more information see https://tftorrance.org/firbush. ----------- Firbush Retreat Summer 2014 Bill Steele, "Reformed Worship: Principles and Practice" https://tftorrance.org/firbushS2014 The audio recording for this presentation is available on the Firbush Retreat section of the website for the Thomas F. Torrance Theological Fellowship. The following AI transcript is too rough to rely upon, but perhaps useful for word searches and time-stamps. It is unretouched; if anyone wishes to listen to it and clean it up we will be happy to post an improved version (contact the webmasters). We invite speakers to send us slides for their talks, which we will post alongside the audios and transcripts. If any speaker wishes to have their talk removed from the website, just let us know and we'll take down both the audio and the transcript. ------------ 00:00-00:18 Okay, I grew up in what was formerly a mining village just north of Motherwell in Lanarkshire. 00:18-00:22 Went to a local parish church. 00:22-00:26 As a teenager I went to the parish church in the next village. 00:26-00:33 In each case the worship was very straightforward and very simple. 00:33-00:40 Call to worship, a hymn, a prayer, a hymn, a children's talk, a hymn, a Bible reading, 00:40-00:41 a sermon. 00:41-00:45 Oh no, the offering came first, before. 00:45-00:49 So somewhere in there was an offering and a dedicated prayer. 00:49-00:55 And there was a choir anthem and after the sermon there was a hymn and a benediction 00:55-00:58 and that was it. 00:58-01:02 Same when I went to church in Edinburgh as a student. 01:02-01:03 Same pattern. 01:03-01:11 Went to study in North America and went to a United Presbyterian Church congregation 01:11-01:15 and I was shocked. 01:15-01:23 They had an assurance of pardon after the opening prayer which included a confession. 01:23-01:26 The confession was not abnormal to me. 01:26-01:31 But the assurance of pardon, well that was Catholic. 01:31-01:42 And then they had responsive prayers and the Creed, Apostles' Creed after the sermon. 01:42-01:45 And they had the offering after the sermon. 01:45-01:49 Well, I was really shocked by this. 01:49-01:52 This was so Catholic. 01:52-01:53 But I adjusted to it. 01:53-01:55 I got used to it. 01:55-02:01 And then I began to become interested in liturgy and forms of worship. 02:01-02:08 And when I was ordained in the Presbyterian Church in Canada, I simply used the standard 02:08-02:14 reform, which is the standard reform liturgy. 02:14-02:23 And which included an assurance of pardon, responsive prayers or readings, a creedal 02:23-02:26 statement. 02:26-02:33 And so I had become used to this and I never had any problems doing that in churches where 02:33-02:38 I served. 02:38-02:43 Then I jumped to the Christian Reform Church and I had some specific reasons for that and 02:43-02:51 it had nothing to do with women in office or ordination of women or the homosexual issue 02:51-02:54 or anything like that. 02:54-03:00 But I did have some particular reasons which I won't go into. 03:00-03:12 So I was interested in liturgy and wanted to be creative, wanted to experiment, wanted 03:12-03:24 to help a congregation express their priesthood in worship. 03:24-03:29 Because I really felt that in the Church of Scotland we really didn't do that. 03:29-03:35 The minister was the only one who expressed priesthood, though a congregation did in their 03:35-03:36 singing. 03:36-03:41 But really that was all. 03:41-03:45 So that's how I became interested in worship. 03:45-03:53 And I've handed you out a sheet, I didn't get it on the PowerPoint, I handed you out 03:53-03:58 a sheet with two of Calvin's liturgies. 03:58-04:04 One was Strasbourg and I wasn't able to find out the year, maybe some scholar in the field 04:04-04:11 of liturgy knows what year he produced his Strasbourg liturgy. 04:11-04:17 And then there was the Geneva liturgy which he produced in 1542 and you'll see that the 04:17-04:24 Strasbourg liturgy had some things which are missing from the Geneva liturgy, the absolution, 04:24-04:31 the carie liaison after the law and in fact the metrical decalogue that was missing from 04:31-04:41 Geneva. 04:41-04:43 Would you repeat that? 04:43-04:47 Oh okay, is there anybody else missing a copy? 04:47-04:49 Oh I don't have any more. 04:49-04:54 Could some of you share them? 04:54-05:12 Yeah, but you'll notice that in Geneva they have the Lord's Prayer sung and in both cases 05:12-05:15 they had the Apostles' Creed sung. 05:15-05:24 In Strasbourg during the liturgy of the upper room they had the Lord's Prayer and in Geneva 05:24-05:32 they had a prayer of consecration which they didn't have in Strasbourg. 05:32-05:44 In Strasbourg they had an onc de mitis in meter and the service ended with the Aaronic blessing. 05:44-05:49 I think there's value to both the liturgies but what I would like to see is actually the 05:49-06:02 two of them combined because I think that expresses more the priesthood of the congregation 06:02-06:06 in the worship. 06:06-06:17 Well when I moved to the Christian Reformed Church 06:17-06:24 they had produced in 1968 a statement on principles for Reformed worship. 06:24-06:37 Now before 1968 they still used the liturgy from the Synod of Dort and it was basically 06:37-06:44 the same as Noxie's Liturgy which I'm going to show you next. 06:44-06:52 It was all done by the minister and it was very didactic and the prayers were didactic. 06:52-07:01 They were really hardly prayers to God, they were basically instruction to the congregation. 07:01-07:10 But after 1968 the Christian Reformed Church began to change and it produced these principles. 07:10-07:17 Worship must be biblical and that means it must not only use biblical text in the liturgy 07:17-07:28 but it must be biblical in message, it must be biblical in its expression of worship. 07:28-07:36 It should be Catholic and therefore it should use the liturgies of the Church of all ages 07:36-07:42 as they can express Reformed doctrine. 07:42-07:49 Confessional, well it should be according to the doctrine of the Reformed confessions. 07:49-07:57 And pastoral, it should meet the needs of the congregation. 07:57-07:59 And I'll go on with that a little bit later. 07:59-08:08 But I think those are very valuable principles for liturgy and for worship. 08:08-08:16 Now, I'm sorry that the way these slides on the PowerPoint, I was in a rush to get this 08:16-08:23 done and so there's maybe too much on each slide and they're different in sizes and different 08:23-08:25 in the quantity that's on them. 08:25-08:27 So please just bear with me. 08:27-08:36 So this is the liturgy Nox produced for the English congregation in Geneva in 1556 and 08:36-08:48 it's basically the liturgy adopted by the Church of Scotland in 1560. 08:48-09:07 There are, let me see, oh and I have some web pages, links there that you can go on 09:07-09:13 to to get these liturgies. 09:13-09:19 So it begins actually with a prayer of adoration and a confession of sin and two models of 09:19-09:23 confession of sin are offered. 09:23-09:30 One has to do with the very concrete situation that the English were in. 09:30-09:35 It had to do with the Marian persecution. 09:35-09:40 And let me just read you a little bit out of this for our time out of the ninth chapter 09:40-09:41 of Daniel. 09:41-09:48 "O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee; unto us pertaineth nothing but open shame; 09:48-09:53 as it is come to pass this day unto our miserable country of England. 09:53-09:59 Yea, unto all our nations, whether they be far or near, through all lands wherein they 09:59-10:04 are scattered for the offenses that they have committed against thee, so that the curses 10:04-10:10 and punishments which are written in thy law are now poured upon us, and thou hast performed 10:10-10:16 those words wherewith thou didst menace us and our rulers that governed us in bringing 10:16-10:22 the same plagues upon us which beforehand were threatened. 10:22-10:28 And yet notwithstanding both they and we proceed in our iniquity and cease not to heap sin 10:28-10:30 upon sin. 10:30-10:35 For they which once were well instructed in the doctrine of thy gospel are now gone back 10:35-10:41 from the obedience of thy truth and are turned again to that most abominable idolatry from 10:41-10:46 which they were once called by the lively preaching of thy word." 10:46-10:57 So it's kind of what we would say in OTT in terms of confession of sin. 10:57-11:06 It's very much beating my breast and saying "Oh I'm unworthy" and we are unworthy. 11:06-11:14 And I just want to make a comment about this unworthiness. 11:14-11:18 I don't think it's right to say we are unworthy. 11:18-11:23 We're undeserving of God's salvation, of God's forgiveness. 11:23-11:28 But we're not unworthy of his grace because he has created us in his image. 11:28-11:38 And that alone makes us worthy and our worthiness is doubled in Christ because we are worthy 11:38-11:47 in Christ of the grace and the salvation and the pardon which he has already accomplished 11:47-11:49 for us. 11:49-11:53 The second confession is for all states and times. 11:53-11:55 Let me read you some of that. 11:55-11:58 "O eternal God and most merciful Father." 11:58-12:03 Now that's a slightly better beginning, most merciful Father. 12:03-12:09 "We confess and acknowledge here before thy divine majesty that we are miserable sinners, 12:09-12:13 conceived and born in sin and iniquity so that in us there is no goodness. 12:13-12:19 For the flesh evermore rebels against the spirit whereby we continually transgress thy 12:19-12:27 holy precepts and commandments and so purchase to ourselves through thy just judgment, death 12:27-12:31 and damnation." 12:31-12:37 And then it goes on to say, "We do unfeignedly repent us of the same." 12:37-12:38 That's of our sins. 12:38-12:44 "We most humbly beseech thee for Jesus Christ's sake to show thy mercy upon us, to forgive 12:44-12:57 us all our sins, to increase thy holy spirit in us, that we may henceforth not only mortify 12:57-13:03 our sinful lusts and affections but also bring forth such fruits as may be agreeable to thy 13:03-13:04 blessed will." 13:04-13:13 And he talks about the merits of thy, for the sake of the merits of thy dearly beloved 13:13-13:15 Son Jesus Christ. 13:15-13:22 Now, once again, I have a couple of problems. 13:22-13:29 One is that in this confession, forgiveness is conditional upon repentance and faith. 13:29-13:35 But actually faith in Lord Jesus Christ is not mentioned as conditional upon repentance. 13:35-13:40 And also that Christ has merited mercy and forgiveness. 13:40-13:45 Now, I might be heretical here, but I have some difficulty with the idea of Christ meriting 13:45-13:53 mercy and forgiveness, because grace seems to me to be incompatible with merit. 13:53-14:01 And Jesus Christ is the grace of God to us in person. 14:01-14:09 And in Christ we receive grace and we are gracious. 14:09-14:19 So I see that salvation, mercy, forgiveness is accomplished for us by Christ's incarnation, 14:19-14:26 circumcision, baptism, service of willing obedience to the Father, crucifixion, resurrection, 14:26-14:30 ascension, and his appearing at the end of the Ebal. 14:30-14:35 Well, so much for my comments on that. 14:35-14:40 It goes on with the psalm, a prayer for the assistance of the Holy Spirit. 14:40-14:42 There's no scripture reading. 14:42-14:48 Knox at this stage was implacably opposed to the public reading of scripture in worship. 14:48-14:59 But in Streisburg, when there was some controversy between some of the Anglicans and the more 14:59-15:09 Puritan types, Knox went along with the reading of scripture, and even with the absolution, 15:09-15:16 although he had doubts about it. 15:16-15:24 But you will see here that there was no absolution after the confession of sin, no assurance 15:24-15:29 of pardon. 15:29-15:35 And well, that's what came into the Church of Scotland and that's why probably most of 15:35-15:40 us grew up without it. 15:40-15:46 A prayer, a sermon, a prayer for the Holy State of Christ's Church, that's really the 15:46-15:48 Church Catholic. 15:48-15:54 There was the Lord's Prayer and probably we all grew up with that. 15:54-16:00 It was said by the congregation, I don't know if in Geneva and in the early days of the 16:00-16:04 Reformed Church in Scotland the Lord's Prayer was said by the congregation. 16:04-16:06 Does anybody know? 16:06-16:10 Or if it was only said by the minister? 16:10-16:16 Certainly in the Dutch Reformed tradition it was only said by the minister. 16:16-16:20 There was a psalm and then a blessing or benediction at the end. 16:20-16:31 And once again, oh and there is no epiclaces in the communion service. 16:31-16:35 I don't have that on here. 16:35-16:42 But it seems to me that most of the necessary elements of the liturgy are there except for 16:42-16:46 an assurance of pardon and epiclaces. 16:46-16:50 But the congregations are auditors. 16:50-16:54 They're not carrying out liturgia. 16:54-17:02 They're not functioning as priests except in the singing of the psalms. 17:02-17:10 And to be quite frank I can't blame Charles I for attempting to introduce an Anglican 17:10-17:18 liturgy which is much more expressive of liturgia, the work of the people, and includes all the 17:18-17:21 elements, the necessary elements of liturgy. 17:21-17:27 Although it was too prescriptive and didn't leave enough discretion to the presbyter to 17:27-17:30 vary the parts. 17:30-17:37 This gives you the 1736, link for the 1736 book of common prayer, Scottish book of common 17:37-17:46 prayer, which actually in many ways I quite like. 17:46-17:56 Now I also was part of the French Reformed Church for a while. 17:56-18:06 And this is a liturgy of the Reformed Churches and the Principality of Neuchâtel in Valenjean. 18:06-18:14 In 1713 they published a new liturgy based on the scriptures and the best of modern and 18:14-18:16 ancient liturgies. 18:16-18:21 You have the principle of biblical and catholic. 18:21-18:29 Shortly before this liturgy was composed the church of Geneva had introduced canticles. 18:29-18:38 And so these churches they introduced canticles and they could be said or chanted in French, 18:38-18:41 in the French church. 18:41-18:50 I find it noteworthy that the European Reformed Churches were moving in a more catholic direction 18:50-19:03 than the Scottish and English presbyterians who in the 1645 Westminster liturgy had moved 19:03-19:12 to a much more restrictive and I think narrower and less catholic expression of worship. 19:12-19:17 Although I think even that was better than what I grew up with in the Church of Scotland 19:17-19:22 because it did include the Lord's Prayer said by the congregation and it did include the 19:22-19:27 Apostles' Creed. 19:27-19:44 Now the 1637 Scottish Book of Common Prayer I think was good but it missed some important 19:44-19:46 catholic elements of liturgy. 19:46-19:51 And the structure could have been better, it could have been improved by making it flow 19:51-19:56 from adoration to confession of sin to assurance of pardon to the reading of scriptures, the 19:56-20:05 preaching of the word, the response by confession of faith to holy communion and benediction. 20:05-20:16 But I think the content was more pastorally adequate than what turned up in the Westminster 20:16-20:20 direction for public worship. 20:20-20:26 The French Reformed Liturgy and these headings are mine by the way, the numbered headings, 20:26-20:32 they're not there in the text. 20:32-20:42 So there's a short prayer of preparation and there's a psalm or a canticle or a hymn which 20:42-20:50 may be sung, it's not prescriptive and there's a prayer of invocation, adoration and thanksgiving 20:50-20:56 and the congregation say Amen. 20:56-21:07 Also at this point I want to mention that in their directive the Synod encouraged responsive 21:07-21:14 prayers. 21:14-21:18 So then there was the word read and there was a prayer again with the congregation saying 21:18-21:28 Amen, the minister and people stand for the reading of the scriptures and the first scripture 21:28-21:38 reading is the Ten Commandments and the summary of the law. 21:38-21:43 After that, after the Ten Commandments there's the confession of sin and there's no assurance 21:43-21:48 of pardon or thanksgiving for pardon. 21:48-21:52 Now growing up in the Church of Scotland in that opening prayer after the confession of 21:52-21:58 sin there was a thanksgiving for pardon so there was some form of assurance of pardon 21:58-22:03 given to the congregation but it wasn't directly given to the congregation because it was thanksgiving 22:03-22:08 to God and not directed to the congregation. 22:08-22:16 It seems to me that for pastoral reasons a congregation need to hear from God, your sins 22:16-22:20 are forgiven. 22:20-22:25 And interestingly enough I raised that up with a support group that I've put together 22:25-22:30 for myself in Hamilton while I'm doing a local ministry and you know I've discussed some 22:30-22:36 of these issues with them and I raised for them how did they feel about me doing the 22:36-22:42 assurance of pardon and one responded by saying well if we confess our sins we need to hear 22:42-22:44 that we're forgiven. 22:44-22:50 So you know it's making sense. 22:50-22:57 Second scripture reading the minister stands and the people sit and it's an Old Testament 22:57-23:04 reading from Genesis through Exodus or from the prophets and then there's a psalm or canticle 23:04-23:10 sung or said and then there's a third scripture reading which is from the gospel or Acts. 23:10-23:17 Now at the afternoon service the rest of the Old Testament is to be read something from 23:17-23:21 Job through Ecclesiastes and the second reading in the afternoon there are only two readings 23:21-23:26 epistles something from the epistles of apocalypse. 23:26-23:35 So in one day you get all of the scriptures being offered and then there's what I call 23:35-23:42 response to the word read a prayer for mercy salvation and cleanness of heart a prayer 23:42-23:48 for faith and the Apostles Creed there's a general thanksgiving to which the congregation 23:48-23:59 say Amen and a general prayer and you see what the elements of that are a hymn and then 23:59-24:07 the sermon I just I just feel a little bit uncomfortable with you know how the sermon 24:07-24:15 is separated from the reading of the word because in my understanding the sermon is 24:15-24:25 the word of God preached and in Holytown parish church when I was a teen teenager in Laroch 24:25-24:34 Shire the minister always prefaced his sermons by saying we have heard God's word read now 24:34-24:38 hear God's word proclaimed in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit 24:38-24:47 and I have continued that I do that and at the end of the sermon he would say thanks 24:47-24:52 be to God for this proclamation of his Holy Word to him be all praise and glory and I 24:52-25:01 continue to do that because while my words are not the word of God as the word of God 25:01-25:06 comes through scripture as much as the words of the sermon are scriptural and proclaiming 25:06-25:16 the message of the scripture they are or become the word of God. 25:16-25:24 Okay so that will take us on to the liturgical form of the Christian Form Church in North 25:24-25:31 America and I want to say a little bit about the Trinitarian character of worship here 25:31-25:39 because the form is itself Trinitarian because we approach God the Father through Christ 25:39-25:48 the Son in the power of the Holy Spirit and we are we confess the Trinity in unity but 25:48-25:53 there are little expressions of the Trinity which are available and I think are good to 25:53-26:01 be used throughout the service. 26:01-26:13 So again at the end of the prayer of invocation we can say you know we offer our prayers to 26:13-26:22 the Father through the Son in the unity of the Holy Spirit invoking the Trinity which 26:22-26:27 I think is valuable people I think people need to know that our worship really is to 26:27-26:34 the Trinity and not just to a Unitarian God. 26:34-26:38 So and then there's a gathering praise there's the call to worship and I want to say something 26:38-26:46 here about I hope this doesn't come like me boasting or anything but my approach to call 26:46-26:53 to worship and I've just developed this on my own but I think people desperately need 26:53-27:00 to know that God is love and that they are loved by God. 27:00-27:09 So I always read a verse of scripture about God's love for his people and I conclude it 27:09-27:17 by saying something like this this is amazing that this God who is love so much loves you 27:17-27:23 and me and I intentionally say you because I think they need to hear it's you but I say 27:23-27:29 me to include myself. 27:29-27:35 You know that this God so loves you and me. 27:35-27:43 Let us respond to this love of God this God of love let us worship God and let us sing 27:43-27:48 to his praise and glory the hymn of the psalm. 27:48-27:58 I don't know if any of you would find that useful but it's there for your consideration. 27:58-28:07 Okay the acts of praise in the Christian informed church it may be a prayer of adoration or 28:07-28:18 it could it could be some response of reading that's a reading of praise and then there's 28:18-28:24 a greeting and that's what in the old Dutch liturgy was called the salutation grace mercy 28:24-28:29 and peace to you from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and to add it to that would 28:29-28:36 be in the power of the Holy Spirit because it's binary in the epistles where it's used 28:36-28:45 but it's Trinitarian in the form that we use it. 28:45-28:51 There's a call to confession again it's from scripture and then there's the prayer of confession 28:51-28:57 which may it varies it may be said by the minister it may be a unison prayer it may 28:57-29:03 be a responsive prayer and then there is always always always an assurance of pardon because 29:03-29:07 that is considered to be pastorally essential. 29:07-29:11 People need to hear your sins are forgiven. 29:11-29:20 If they confess we confess our sins as as the elder in Trinity Hamilton said well if 29:20-29:27 we confess our sins we need to hear that we're forgiven. 29:27-29:33 And well then there's the passing of the peace now I move that to the end of the service 29:33-29:42 for the simple reason I find I have found that if the service ends with the benediction 29:42-29:48 of the Korolame people get up and leave. 29:48-29:53 After the Korolame I go to the back of the church I raise my hands in blessing and I 29:53-29:58 say the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all let's bless each other with a 29:58-30:04 sign of peace by shaking hands with those around us and so that gets people into wishing 30:04-30:10 each other God's peace and shaking hands but then carrying on fellowshipping with each 30:10-30:16 other and I know the effect that it's had in the churches what I've said is that people 30:16-30:21 who have visited have said that they're warm churches and the people in the churches have 30:21-30:26 said that they feel that the churches are warmer since friendlier since they started 30:26-30:30 doing that. 30:30-30:38 So and then there's the response of thanksgiving for pardon. 30:38-30:41 Then there's the section the proclamation of prayer for illumination an Old Testament 30:41-30:49 reading of Psalm which is usually a metrical Psalm sung, New Testament reading and the 30:49-30:50 sermon. 30:50-30:58 Now I when I was a missionary in Guinea in West Africa when I spent time in the capital 30:58-31:05 and I had to go there from time to time for to do administrative business for our mission 31:05-31:13 and also sometimes for language study at the university I went to an Anglo Catholic Church 31:13-31:26 and they always had three readings Old Testament, Epistle, Gospel and they chanted a Psalm between 31:26-31:28 the Old Testament and the Epistle. 31:28-31:37 I think for the congregations I serve three readings is too much. 31:37-31:40 It's just too much. 31:40-31:47 And then there's the Lord's Supper, oh well the sermon of course. 31:47-31:59 The other sermon and there will usually be a response of him. 31:59-32:03 Have I missed the Creed? 32:03-32:05 Yeah I have. 32:05-32:14 Well after the sermon there's a response of him and there's the offering and the Creed 32:14-32:26 and it can be the Apostles Creed or the Nicene Creed or another acceptable and creedal statement. 32:26-32:32 There's the invitation to the Lord's Table, there's the great prayer of thanksgiving, 32:32-32:38 the words of institution, the prayer of consecration, the communion, the thanksgiving and the sending 32:38-32:47 and again there's a hymn after the communion. 32:47-32:50 The way we do communion varies very much. 32:50-32:55 I know one of the things we've talked about is wine and grape juice. 32:55-33:04 Well in two of the churches where I have served what we have done is we've used the little 33:04-33:11 glasses, I hate those little glasses, but the inner row has been grape juice and the 33:11-33:16 outer has been wine because there are people who cannot take alcohol. 33:16-33:24 Now when I was part of First Christian Reform Church in Toronto we gathered around the table 33:24-33:25 in groups. 33:25-33:29 So one group would come and gather around and then they would sit down and another would 33:29-33:31 come forward and so forth. 33:31-33:38 And the bread was passed around from one to another and it was a loaf and people took 33:38-33:48 from the loaf and as they passed it on they simply said the body of Christ. 33:48-33:54 There were two cups, oh and by the way there was also passed around non-glutinous bread 33:54-33:58 and there was passed around two cups. 33:58-34:06 One cup we used and one was wine and one was grape juice but we communicated by intinction, 34:06-34:09 we did not drink from the cup. 34:09-34:13 We retained the bread and dipped it in the cup. 34:13-34:20 I don't know if you find that an objectionable practice but there were times when I was glad 34:20-34:25 of it because there were times when you know I had a bad cold and I was cold sore and I 34:25-34:30 wouldn't have been able to have the wine if I didn't use intinction. 34:30-34:41 But I went to, well when I was in Korea after I finished my contract with the Presbyterian 34:41-34:51 Church and School where I was serving I spent a year without work and I went to the Anglican 34:51-34:56 Cathedral on Sunday mornings and they did not allow intinction. 34:56-35:03 They said that actually was more unhygienic than drinking from the cup. 35:03-35:08 But you know I think if you make sure you don't drip your fingers in it, you know it's 35:08-35:12 alright. 35:12-35:17 So anyway am I going on too long? 35:17-35:23 So okay I now go to the Church of Scotland's Book of Common Order and to be very frank 35:23-35:28 with you I find it very long and very laborious. 35:28-35:38 I'm not going to take you through all the elements you can see those for yourself. 35:38-35:44 What I have done in Hamilton is introduce a unison, a general confession in unison or 35:44-35:53 a responsive confession but sometimes just one said by the minister. 35:53-35:57 Assurance of Pardon that's always said by myself. 35:57-36:02 The Collect for the Day, I don't always use that. 36:02-36:05 Don't use the Gloria in Excelsis. 36:05-36:07 I would like to because I love it. 36:07-36:15 I think it just makes the service too long for the people who are there. 36:15-36:23 Old service and lessons, Psalm which we always sing and Epistle. 36:23-36:27 No well okay we don't use the Epistle right now. 36:27-36:30 We use the Gospel but it's simply a New Testament reading. 36:30-36:40 It can be either Epistle or Apocalypse or Acts or Gospel and Alleluia or Hymn. 36:40-36:43 Well we don't have that there and we don't have a prayer before the sermon. 36:43-36:47 I just go right into the sermon. 36:47-36:54 Again it's because the congregation cannot take too long a service. 36:54-37:01 Earlier than I see in Creed and as we did in the Christian Reformed Church I use Apostles 37:01-37:04 and I see in or another contemporary statement Faith. 37:04-37:09 The Church of Scotland has a short statement of the Reformed Faith that it produced a few 37:09-37:14 years ago and I've used that. 37:14-37:21 The intimations, well we have the intimations at the beginning of the service. 37:21-37:27 I can see the reason for having it there because it brings in the activities that are going 37:27-37:31 to go on during the week into the prayer life of the church. 37:31-37:34 Having it at the beginning sort of cuts it off. 37:34-37:39 It makes it an extra thing. 37:39-37:46 Offering the great entrance, the grace. 37:46-37:50 Well yeah I don't do the grace. 37:50-37:55 I think the taking of the bread and wine is superfluous because, and I cut it out, because 37:55-37:59 we take the bread and wine in the prayer of consecration. 37:59-38:03 So why have it twice? 38:03-38:06 Lord's Prayer, breaking of the bread. 38:06-38:09 We don't have the Agnes D.A. 38:09-38:14 We have the communion, the peace but I move that to the end of the service but I can see 38:14-38:17 having it there. 38:17-38:23 That makes good sense but again the reason I have it at the end of the service is to 38:23-38:27 move into the communion of the saints with each other. 38:27-38:32 We have been having a communion of the saints in the service, those who have gone before 38:32-38:44 us and we then bring that into communion with each other in fellowship. 38:44-39:00 Prayer, a prayer of thanksgiving, a final hymn, no no excuse me not final hymn. 39:00-39:04 I think I've got these things mixed up yeah, the narrative of the institution. 39:04-39:08 It feels funny in the service. 39:08-39:12 Yeah let me see what I've done here. 39:12-39:14 It's number 22. 39:14-39:16 Right okay. 39:16-39:25 Now let me see about that. 39:25-39:30 With regard to the unveiling of the elements and the narrative of the institution, again 39:30-39:33 I think there's repetition there. 39:33-39:43 So parts of those I cut out and I don't like the word institution. 39:43-39:44 Instituted? 39:44-39:48 That makes me think of a prison or you know something like that. 39:48-39:51 I use inception. 39:51-39:59 I use the word inception which I think is less, well it carries less negative connotations 39:59-40:01 for me. 40:01-40:07 And also I don't like the word elements. 40:07-40:11 You know it makes me think of something scientific or whatever. 40:11-40:25 So I simply use the gifts of bread and wine which to me expresses better what they are. 40:25-40:37 Okay so now we've got to the okay so okay there's the breaking of the bread, the communion. 40:37-40:44 I don't use the Agnes Day, the pieces at the end, the prayer of thanksgiving. 40:44-40:53 Don't use the glory, the hymn and the benediction and the bread and wine are taken from the 40:53-40:54 church. 40:54-41:00 Now when I was growing up in Hollytown parish church I asked the minister what do you do 41:00-41:06 with the bread and the wine but it's not been eaten and he says oh the elders carry it out 41:06-41:10 and they eat and drink what remains. 41:10-41:16 Okay so I have carried on with that but when I tried to do that in Trinity Hamilton the 41:16-41:22 interim moderator said to me oh you can't do that in the Church of Scotland and I was 41:22-41:31 a bit confused because that's what I had known to be done and it's what I did in North America. 41:31-41:40 And I just want to say why I don't feel right about throwing the bread to the birds because 41:40-41:47 I know we don't believe in transubstantiation but this has been consecrated for this particular 41:47-41:55 use and I don't like talking about setting apart from a common use for this holy use 41:55-41:58 because there is nothing common. 41:58-42:03 Everything is holy in Christ and in the kingdom of God. 42:03-42:12 And it goes back to this spiritual natural distinction. 42:12-42:21 The distinction is creator in creation and when we talk about the spiritual with regard 42:21-42:30 to communion it's by the Holy Spirit that this bread and wine becomes the body and blood 42:30-42:32 of Christ. 42:32-42:41 Now going on from that I want to say something about the presence of Christ and something 42:41-42:44 about the Christian Reformed Church. 42:44-42:49 Now this is what the the Belgian confession says. 42:49-42:54 Truly we receive into our souls for our spiritual life the true body and blood of Christ our 42:54-42:57 only Savior. 42:57-43:03 We receive these by faith which is the hand and mouth of our souls that what is eaten 43:03-43:09 is Christ's own natural body and what is drunk is his own blood. 43:09-43:16 Yet we do not go wrong when we say but the manner in which we eat it is by the mouth, 43:16-43:22 is not by the mouth but by the Spirit through faith. 43:22-43:27 But the liturgy of the Christian Reformed Church is awful. 43:27-43:36 What the minister says when he delivers the gifts to the congregation, "Take, eat, remember 43:36-43:40 and believe that the body of our Lord Jesus Christ was given for the complete forgiveness 43:40-43:42 of all our sins." 43:42-43:47 It's totally memorialist. 43:47-43:51 And you see what it's done with the giving of the cup. 43:51-43:56 Now I've actually never heard a minister say that. 43:56-44:02 What I've ever heard ministers say is, "This is the body of our Lord Jesus Christ which 44:02-44:05 is given for you." 44:05-44:12 "Eat this bread in remembrance that Christ died for you." 44:12-44:18 So he says this is the body of Christ, eat this bread. 44:18-44:20 So it's not memorialist. 44:20-44:29 And let me go on to what the Westminster Confession says, "There is in every sacrament a spiritual 44:29-44:34 relation or sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified when it comes 44:34-44:41 to pass that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other." 44:41-44:50 So, and in my understanding what's meant by spiritual relation is a relation by the Holy 44:50-44:53 Spirit. 44:53-44:59 A sacramental union is a union by the Holy Spirit between the consecrated elements of 44:59-45:04 bread and wine and the body and blood of Christ. 45:04-45:06 I hope I haven't gone too long. 45:06-45:08 I guess I'm a bit terrible. 45:08-45:09 Sorry. 45:09-45:14 But you know, any discussion please go ahead and make any comments. 45:14-45:18 If you have any questions, I don't promise to be able to answer them. 45:18-45:19 Maybe somebody can.